#anyways Penelope my beloved

[pettyprocrastination]

Unravel

hey who wants to read some silly Odyssey fanfiction I wrote for my humanities final hehe

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Penelope’s fingers were beginning to grow calluses. 

She had only been entertaining the suitors for a month. If that were the right word for maintaining a strained smile as men ravaged her house like a pack of wolves, pillaging her kitchen and dining hall while leering like they wished to do the same to her. 

The idea had come to her two weeks into their stay, when she sat by her loom to find the remaining thread slowly beginning to lose its tension and fall from it’s place. 

Unraveling. 

Night by night. Undoing the hours of work she had toiled over during the day so she may begin again in the morning. An hourglass that will never empty as she waits for him to return. 

Odysseus.

The fleetings moments of sleep she allows herself are spent in a blinding nightmare where his demise is placed in front of her. Each night is a new death.

Drowning. 

Starvation. 

Hung. 

Betrayed. 

Slain in battle. 

Each night she sees the light leave her husband’s eyes and each day she must endure the men who so desperately wish to replace him. She stares as the unwoven ends of the textile before her, letting her fingers slowly run over the fibers and feel each ridge. 

A wife weaving a burial shroud while waiting for her husband’s return. 

The irony is not lost on her. 

A soft cry comes from the corner of the room, pulling Penelope from her thoughts and to the polished cradle by her bed. The noises continue, a low whine that slowly begins to build and build until she leans over the cradle and smiles. 

“Good morning, my sweet.” 

Telemachus does not have his father’s eyes nor his nose. Odysseus had jested about the fact when the babe had first been brought into the world by her own strength. After hours of labor he lay sleeping in her arms as her husband watched them both fondly. 

“The boy looks nothing like me.” He whispered with a smile. “A small gift from the gods, to give him his mother’s face rather than his oafish father’s.” 

Penelope was too tired to properly chastise him for such self loathing, nor would she risk jostling the infant sleeping on her chest. She simply scoffed and rolled her eyes.

“I happen to quite like the oaf.” 

Odysseus leaned over the bed, allowing his lips to graze the shell of her ear and grin as a smile grew on her face no matter how hard she fought it. 

“And I thank the gods everyday for it.” 

She takes the fussing child into her arms, gently shushing him as his cries slowly quiet until they stop completely. He grins at his mother, proudly showing off his complete lack of teeth that makes her smile in return. 

Her son holds no features of his father. She hopes he does not grow to live in his shadow. 

A glass shattering in the dining hall breaks the tender moment of mother and son. Frightened, Telemachus’ lip quivers before he begins to wail. Penelope is able to soothe him once more, letting him slowly drift off to sleep on her shoulder. 

But she must leave, as she does each day. 

Penelope gently lowers Telemachus back into his crib and kisses the soft curls atop his head, whispering sweet words to her son before departing from the room.

She can hear them clearly now. The call of the morning by those violating her home. The vulgar voices of the men in her home, hollering and laughing amongst one another like friends in reunion. With slow, even, breaths, she walks down the hall, listening to the voices grow louder and louder until she is faced with wooden double doors, all that keeps her from them. 

Odysseus, she pleads to nobody. Return home.

The last gentle thread of the mourning wife is wiped from her face as calloused fingers curl around the handle and rip the door open. 

Another day begins. 

[cescalovestowrite]

Hi hello, I have seen the “Odysseus can pose a threat to Penelope if he sees her being unfaithful” debate everywhere. But can you help me to elaborate how?

Hi, sure.

There are people who have expressed it way better than I ever could, but if I can be of any help I'm glad to. This is going to be quite long and hopefully not too messy.

Sources for the things I will say: Penelope's Renown: Meaning and Indeterminacy in the Odyssey and Penelope: from character to poetics.

The first thing to say is if you're asking me whether Odysseus poses a physical threat to Penelope (e.g. whether he wants to kill/be violent with her if she betrays him), then in my opinion there is no basis in the text to support this. This threat is never made explicit by him. Odysseus is repeatedly put in a position to think about a possible betrayal (especially when he talks to Agamemnon, but also for example when he hears the love story between Ares and Aphrodite while he is at the court of the Phaeacians) and he never expresses violent thoughts or intentions towards a hypothetical adulterous Penelope. And this is not an attempt to argue that "he's not like other boys" as I'm sometimes forced to read on tumblr, but it is simply based on the text we have. Moreover, Helen's fate seems to indicate to me that in the Homeric world forgiveness towards adulterous wives is at least conceived.

BUT just because there is no explicit threat of physical violence doesn't mean there isn't an underlying potential threat that all the characters perceive.

On several occasions the Odyssey tells the story of Agamemnon and how he was killed by his wife's lover with her complicity. This story is a great alarm bell for the characters, it is a possible plot twist that everyone must take into account. The comparison is immediate:

Agamemnon -> Odysseus

Clytemnestra -> Penelope

Orestes -> Telemachus

Obviously the fact that the stories can be compared does not mean that they can overlap. For example, Telemachus does not feel up to it nor does he seem so willing to take on the role of Orestes as avenger of his father's honor. If he did, he would not have the same reasons as Orestes to direct his revenge towards his mother. But be careful about this last point, because it is clear that Telemachus has some resentment towards his mother and that he perceives her as a threat. This is what Antinous tells him when they are in assembly:

"For I assure you that so long as she maintains this attitude that the gods have guided her to adopt, the Suitors will continue to eat you out of house and home. She may be winning a great name for herself, but at what expense to you!" (Odyssey book 2, Rieu)

So one consideration we can make is that the threat is not one-way. Penelope is herself a threat to Odysseus and Telemachus, and they are a threat to her.

Basically the characters' ignorance about Odysseus' fate (will he return or not?) in itself poses a threat.

In the absence of certainty, there is no right course of action for either Telemachus or Penelope. For Telemachus because:

1) If he faced the suitors alone it would be a suicide mission.

2) He perceives the threat that his mother represents as long as she stays in the house, but can he throw her out if his father is about to come home? No. (Also it seems to me that he is unhappy with the idea of ​​throwing her out anyway).

For Penelope because:

1) by postponing the wedding she is endangering her son's life.

2) if Odysseus is alive she is endangering him and she is also endangering herself by remarrying.

The threat exists because none of the three has all the information, none of the three already knows how the others will act. For Penelope the decision to remarry is the best if Odysseus is dead, but it is objectively wrong if he is alive.

So this is the potential threat, but we can't ignore the fact that in the end things go very differently for the ithacan family than for the house of Atreus. The Odyssey proposes the theme of the House of Atreus several times, only to then distance itself from it and propose an alternative. And since the question was specifically about how Odysseus reacts to Penelope's possible infidelity, I think it's right to focus on his actual behaviors as well, not just potential ones.

An important thing to keep in mind is: the rapresentation of Penelope as the perfect little wife who would never cheat on her husband is very imprecise. Penelope is a person whose thoughts are very difficult to know, and it is very difficult to predict her moves. There is not a single character that can explain with definitive and authoritative voice why she is doing what she is doing. This is continually suggested to us in the text. I will try to give an example that I think is very eloquent. Let's take the scene in which she appears for the first time before Odysseus (still in disguise): she tells the suitors that the time has come for her to get married and narrates that Odysseus had told her that she could/should remarry as soon as Telemachus got old enough. So she convinces the suitors to give her the classic wedding gifts. And then

The noble, patient Odysseus was delighted at her words, because she was extorting gifts from her suitors and bewitching them by her persuasive words, while all the time her heart was set on something quite different (Odyssey book 18, Rieu)

So he "knows" that she is making fun of them. But let's think about this for a moment. There are two possibilities: 1) Penelope did not lie about the story 2) Penelope did lie about the story.

If Penelope told the truth then it is not clear why Odysseus should rejoice. How can he know that her heart is set on something different? Is he rejoicing just because she is getting gifts? Or is it because of a sort of pride in the fact that she is so desired by other men (her value as a woman rises)? This second possibility does not seem to be suggested by the text in Odysseus' reaction, but I point out that this interpretation seems to be very close to Athena's plan when she arouses in Penelope the desire to be seen by the suitors. Athena seems to want Penelope to prove herself capable of bringing value to the home and value in the Homeric poems is measured in physical objects.

Or Penelope lied. If Penelope lied why should Odysseus rejoice? Penelope's lie could just be a little excuse to justify the long wait that now is finally over. It could be, in Odysseus' eyes, overwhelming evidence that she actually wants to remarry. Otherwise she would have invented something else.

Here my imaginary interlocutor brings up the concept of homophrosyne. Those two have the same mind and therefore must understand everything about each other, right? Personally, it seems to me that this implies taking the concept a bit too far, and above all it is not really supported by what happens in the text (why should Odysseus fall into the final trap of the bed if Penelope's mind has no secrets for him anyway?). Homophrosyne means that they have the same mind, yes, but in the sense that they are both difficult to read, very distrustful, cautious, liars and both always have more than one purpose.

The point is that Odysseus (and we even less than him in this case) cannot know what Penelope's true intentions are. He can know if she is lying and he can imagine what her feelings are (also because he has been reassured by Athena about them), but he cannot really know them. How can you easily know the heart of a person who always lies?

And be careful because the bow contest is the same thing, if not "worse": how does Odysseus know that she is not calling the contest because she has actually realized that it is better to remarry? After all, that is what her words suggest. Odysseus tells her that having the bow contest is a great idea (and in fact it is because he will have access to a weapon). Can he suspect that she has recognized him and is offering him help? In my opinion, yes, but it would still be a suspicion.

I've finished setting the scene, now I'm finally getting to the point:

What I find important to answer your question is not so much racking our brains to figure out how much Odysseus knew (or how much Penelope knew). I think it's important to understand how Odysseus behaves in his position of ignorance about Penelope's intentions. In my opinion, when Odysseus sees Penelope and then tests her, he is not particularly alarmed by the idea that Penelope might decide that she can no longer postpone marriage. When they talk to each other he tests her heart more than her intentions. He knows she is in a difficult situation and is very happy with how she has handled it up to that point. He is also reassured by the way she remembers him, by the strength with which she desires him. He knows she is doubting but he experiences her doubts as a challenge, because he wants to win her back, to prove to her that her feelings are not misplaced, that he is still worthy of her love as he was twenty years before. So let it be clear that Odysseus wants to test her and be tested by her.

As I already said Odysseus can't be sure of her true intentions and he knows that. That's why he is still in disguise. But the fact that they both lie to each other and don't trust each other right away is what will bring them closer again in the end. It's what they share.

So to answer your question: Odysseus and Penelope pose a serious threat to each other: they don't know how the other will act and must behave cautiously because of this. And it is precisely this that makes it even more incredible that in the end, without their knowing it, their minds are so in sync.

[the-kipsabian]

[patroclusdefencesquad]

i watch bridgerton for the plot. and also because i'm aggressively bisexual

[creamecream]

“Her name is Penelope, she was a showgirl,

But that was thirty years ago, when they used to have a show,

Now it’s a disco, but not for Penny,

Still in the dress she used to wear, faded ribbons in her hair,

She sits there, so refined, and drinks herself half blind,

She lost her youth and she lost her Vaggie,

Now she’s lost her mind,”

[depresseddepot]

I'm chewing on the walls bc my dm hasn't seen my question about my character's backstory yet and I am trying SO HARD to keep myself on the rails and not run off with something I'm not even allowed to do yet

[sunshines-child]

beloved it has been too long!

requesting if u pls a eurymene art bc i love them so much they are the couple of all time right next to odypen. penelope and ctimene are the soul sister duo ever and i love them they get up to so much shenanigans together >:3

anyway do what you fancy and have fun with it :D

I came up with Mene's design off the top of my head XD

[dreamsy990]

saw a take that was soooo wrong so. heres which epic characters can say the bad word for gay but my edition because im always right /SILLY

odysseus: i know what he was doing with diomedes he can say it. and he DOES say it

penelope: shes straight but she gets the pass anyway because she deserves it and also because my beloved mutual asha says so

telemachus: what the fuck do you think piestratus and him were doing. he can say it.

polites: a hopeless boykisser. he can say it.

eurylochus: i dont think so honestly. i think hes a straight guy who thinks all his friends are straight too and then is sooo surprised when he realizes theyre not. hes not homophobic i fear he just didnt realize

antinous: doesnt matter if he can, hes still calling telemachus that every time he sees him

athena: MY AROACE QUEEN CAN SAY IT. i dont think she would though. just doesnt seem like her style

poseidon: sorry the published version of epic is actually censored because thats what he actually called odysseus when he first showed up sorryyyy :(

aeolus: any character whos gender is debated gets to say it by default

tiresias: genderqueer king ofc he can say it

circe: the kind of bi thats very very upset that shes into men at all. also once again a classic example of a character who definitely calls odysseus that under her breath. multiple times.

scylla: she can say it. go my monsterfuckers.

hermes: you dont need me to tell you this you already know the answer

calypso: controversial take but i sincerely believe she would be equally in love with anyone who washed up on her island. she would obsess over penelope if it was her there instead of odysseus. she gets to say it

zeus: invented the word so hed have something new to call his kids. also you know. the original example of if theres a hole theres a goal

apollo: the kid zeus invented the word for.

hephaestus: no. sorry to the like 15 people on xhs who wanted my design for him carnally for some reason but thats a straight guy. hes probably an ally though! i think itd be hard to be a homophobic god considering the guys you have to be around all the time

aphrodite: do NOT try to tell me she cant. i fear its her favorite word.

ares: you know what im hesitantly going to say no. not that anyone would question him if he did though.

hera: straight against her own better judgement. she cannot say it.

[zarnzarn]

Epic post canon fluff for the soul!

-

"Athena, help, help!" Odysseus hisses, darting behind her. Athena tenses up, grabbing her spear. "Your wife is after me!"

"She is your wife," Athena rolls her eyes, relaxing and letting the weapon dissolve. Odysseus presses himself between her stature and the wall, arranging her robes around him to make it seem she was sitting on the settee alone.

"As are you," Odysseus says pointedly. The delusion never fails to make an odd rush of emotion go through her, something both bashful and giddy and embarrassed to be feeling both. "And speak softer, she's going to hear you."

"What did you do anyway?" Athena sighs, leaning back against him and stifling a grin as he squawks at the heavy weight of her. "Penelope is a calm, rational woman- she's not one usually to send you running like this."

"What are you talking about?" Odysseus says, outrage muffled behind her. "Calm and rational- do you know she once made me fistfight a merchant who she thought was giving us low quality carpets for our wedding? Carpets, Athena!"

"I don't know how you two keep this kingdom running," Athena sighs, shaking her head as she picks her weaving back up. Two arms sneak around her waist, and she shifts downwards with a soft smile no one can see, letting him hug her tight as if he can squeeze his affection into her body. She does not know how it continues to feel like this, even ten years later, like every day is filled with nothing but satisfaction and content and happiness. "What-"

"Athena!" Telemachus crashes into the door as he loses grip on the marble flooring with his old sandals that really need to be burnt. He shakes his head and turns to run at her, throwing himself at her side like intends to crawl behind as well, like he is not a lad of twenty-six summers now. "Mom is- oh, hi, dad!"

"Hey, Tele," Odysseus says warmly, and Athena begs for patience as they both try to adjust themselves behind her. "Did she see you?"

"No! But-"

"What," Athena slams her hands down on the loom. "-did you two even do? And why am I collateral in your foolishness?"

"Because we're your favourites," Telemachus says shamelessly. She regrets the day she and Penelope decided to leave the sweet child alone with his insufferable brat of a father for that holiday they took together around the island. He was never quite the same ever again. "And shhh, she's gonna hear you!"

"Let her," Athena says mutinously. "And you're wrong- Diomedes is my favourite. The calmest, quietest one of all of my students."

"Then stop sending him away to guide youngsters on magical quests!" Penelope snaps as she storms in. Athena is ashamed to admit she quails back at the furious entrance with wide eyes. "Maybe then I'd get someone else in this house who isn't an absolute fool!"

"Penelope-" She says, as if she's done something wrong and she is also not an ancient goddess of war who fought the Titans themselves.

"Athena," Penelope says dangerously. "Where are those rascals?"

Said rascals are frozen still like deer behind her, so much so she barely remembers she's there. "What... rascals?"

Penelope wears a look of incredulity at the terrible attempt at a lie, something that Athena also shares in vague disbelief at her own self, before suddenly changing her tune, looking for all the world a weary, middle-aged, fond woman.

"My darling Athene," she coos, sweet as honey. "Beloved husband mine. Where are those annoying brats, please tell me?"

Athena's heart skips a beat and her fingers stutter on her shuttle.

This nonsense had all started some accursed months ago when she had woken up one morning beside Penelope, Odysseus already gone ahead for the morning to bathe, Athena pressed into the warmth he'd left behind after a particularly bad migraine the previous night.

"I am- not your husband," she manages, trying not to blush at the words. "I do not why you insist on calling me so."

Penelope pouts.

Then Penelope had stretched and thrown an arm and leg over her, and suddenly she was wide awake as the other nuzzled into her neck and murmured, "Good morning, husband."

Athena had burned for that one brief moment, then abruptly teleported out of there to Odysseus in their bathhouse, wading into the water with all her clothes on, babbling apologies and awkward explanations to the bewildered man, while fighting the sudden mortifying realisation of Why have I been sleeping in their marital bed? followed shortly by WHY HAVE THEY BEEN LETTING ME?

And after Odysseus had gotten the whole story out of her- she had not been hysterical, fuck off, Odysseus- he had almost laughed himself sick with mirth. Then after she'd bellowed at him to take it seriously, he'd chuckled and swam closer to her.

Athena had not slipped into the water in shock.

"I won't lie, I do like the sound of it, though," Odysseus had purred. Swam closer and placed his hands on her hips, scalding hot and real. "Penelope would look good with two husbands, don't you think? What say, Pallas Athena, will you be my wife too?"

It had hit her like a sword to the gut, the realisation that he was teasingly seducing her, and it hit like a second sword to the face that even if he didn't really mean it, she wouldn't mind, which was a horrifying development to suddenly be aware of, and the result of that was-

"CEASE!" She had shouted and splashed the entire floor in her mad scramble to get away from him, Odysseus cackling behind her. She had promptly gotten as far away from the entire mad island of Ithaka as she could, and then picked a fight with poor Eros, who was probably the only innocent party in this whole situation.

But after that, they had not stopped, the bastards that they were- went about calling her that all the time, introduced her to people with the title they felt like inflicting on her that day, held her close with the same casual possession they used with each other.

"Are you worried about being the second?" Penelope says brazenly, bangles jingling as she puts her hands on her hips. "Don't worry, love, once I get my hands on Odysseus, you will be my one and only, and we can replace that donkey I call a son as well. Now, I heard you talking to them, where are they?"

"Aw, how come I don't get the title of donkey?" Odysseus says as he peeks out from behind her, and Penelope's face becomes full of rage.

"YOU-!" She hitches up her skirts and chases her laughing husband around the room, shouting insults and curses.

Athena sits there silently, still trying to recover from what Penelope had said so casually to her.

Maybe- maybe it wasn't a joke after all? Were they actually serious-

"You know they are not joking, right?" Telemachus says, sudden sharp knowing in his voice. She looks over at him, and he smiles softly, lifting himself to his knees as he makes his way past her open hair to press a fond kiss to her cheekbone. "They really love you, ma."

Athena makes a truly undignified gurgling noise. Then narrows her eyes. "Manipulation."

"It can be manipulation and truth!" Telemachus says as he reaches out and straightens out the threads of her look that had gotten tangled in all the mess. "I am the product of your intellectual labour, am I not?"

"Are you?" Athena grumbles darkly, and he laughs high and sharp. He has dozens of suitors of his own now, children of heroes and gods alike- and he has every last one wrapped around his finger as easy as breathing, toying with them all so gently they can't do anything but enjoy it as he lazily chooses between them, all father's charm and mother's beauty and smile as sharp as any wolf's.

Athena is so incredibly proud of him.

"Yes," He says, then slumps against her as they watch Penelope pull off her sandals to throw at Odysseus. She misses, and a vase goes crashing to the floor instead as Odysseus slips past her once more. "Mom really is in love with you, though. I can tell."

"I-"

"She knows that too. But maybe come for dinner more often, that's enough to make her day." Athena turns to look at him, raises an eyebrow. Telemachus smiles sunnily. "And there isn't a mortal or Olympian alive who knows what the hell kind of insane dynamic you have going on with dad, so I'm not going to bother asking."

"You used to be such a sweet child," Athena says despairingly. "Why were you tainted so."

Telemachus guffaws.

Another vase crashes to the floor and Athena sighs.

"My most beloved," She calls out, words fitting awkwardly in her mouth. Still, it's worth it to see them both freeze and whip around to stare at her with wide eyes and red cheeks, strangulation and excuses forgotten. She snorts, Telemachus giggles excitedly. "Please. May we forget these petty squabbles and go to lunch? I find myself hungry today."

"Yes!" The two of them practically teleport to her side, looking up at her with adoring, worshipful expressions. Telemachus gestures something encouraging in the side of her vision, and goes on ahead to get the cook ready, successfully escaping his mother's ire.

Athena smiles. Builds up her courage and leans down once on either side to peck them both on the lips and pushes down a smug smile at their stunned expressions as she straightens back up, relishing in the satisfaction of getting one over them after weeks of teasing.

"Well?" She says as she reaches the door, turning back to see them clutching at each other and staring at her, cheeks scarlet. Such beautiful idiots they are, the both of them. She huffs in amusement. "I'll let whoever reaches first call me their wife in front of Hermes tomorrow."

Odysseus and Penelope both shout in dismay and start tussling with each other to reach the door first and Athena laughs as she shifts into an owl and flies overhead, towards yet another day with her favourite people.

[the-kipsabian]

[jeding-png]

There are still people in this fandom who don't know all the spoilers of the novel..? Anyway, this is a warning to you! <3

Wait... this is the first time there are NO novel spoilers??

Hello, dear VADD readers! Happy New Year! I missed you all~!! And that's why I dug up some memes from the depths of my gallery to spice up your vadd tumblr feed and entertain you!

Yeah, sure, only those people who have been following my profile for a long time know that I have banal and barely funny jokes... LET'S START!!

Callisto's love for the Eckarts.

Cedrick: Your Highness, perhaps you should be a little more lenient with your beloved's relatives...

Callisto: k.

Cedrick: And don't look at them with a murderous look.

Callisto: I didn't even think about it.

Cedrick: You always look as if you intend to kill the whole family of Lady Eckhart!..

Callisto: I look at them normally!

Meanwhile, Callisto every time when one of the Eckharts breathes:

We can understand him... even if not condemn him—

Sibling relationships are magical because always to yours:

They will say:

Don't expect to see the next joke topic so soon because sibling interactions are an INEXHAUSTIBLE topic! Better one more >:D

That moment when you worked all day to be hated by half the fandom, but....

You're also the big brother.

R.I.P. dude.

If you have any ideas as to why Penelope only now decided to make many people's dream come true, be sure to share them in the comments!

Do you still remember the existence of this character?

"So, my friend, tell me... what's it like? To be a lovable character in the eyes of others for the first two seasons until the artist adapted certain points of the third and fourth seasons?"

Laila made him a pink blanket so he wouldn't freeze in prison <3

Andddd..... BONUS!!

"Your Highness, how do you comment on the fact that often your first option in choosing a gift for family and loved ones is the corpse of animals or people?"

".....First, the main thing is love and attention (towards Penelope, ofc).

I hope you are still alive and haven't blocked me liked the jokes and I was able to cheer you up! ^^

[oddyseye]

I agree with your position on Calypso being childlike in Epic is detrimental to male victims of sexual assault, but it *is* within Homer's original work that the suitors had malicious thoughts about Penelope in a similar way. He didn't focus on it so explicitly like Jorge is going to do in Epic, but there are several times when Penelope mentions how much of a threat they are to 'us', and an additional moment where the suitors *do* deliberately express desire to have sex with her, and wait until she has left the room to speak in such a manner. From Wilson's translation:

She [Penelope] went back to her room, and took her son's uneasy words to heart. She went upstairs, along with both her slaves, and wept there for her dear Odysseus, until Athena gave her eyes sweet sleep.

Throughout the shadowy hall the suitors clamored, praying to lie beside her in her bed. Telemachus inhaled, then started speaking.

"You suitors, you are taking this too far. Let us enjoy the feast in peace. It is a lovely thing to listen to a bard, especially with one with such a godlike voice."

From Fagles' translation:

Astonished, she withdrew to her own room. She took to heart the clear good sense in what her son had said. Climbing up the loft chamber with her women, she fell to weeping for Odysseus, her beloved husband, till watchful Athena sealed her eyes with welcome sleep.

But the suitors broke into uproar through the shadowed halls, all of them lifting prayers to lie beside her, share her bed, until discreet Telemachus took command: "You suitors who plague my mother, you, you insolent, overweening... for this evening let us dine and take our pleasure, no more shouting now. What a fine thing it is to listen to such a bard as we have here --- the man sings like a god."

I do wish that Jorge had left in that aspect of Odysseus' time trapped with Calypso intact, as well as his time with Circe. The musical suffers without it because this then does seem to be like a sensationalism thing. Anyway, I have enjoyed reading your breakdowns so far! I hope to see more with the next saga coming out in a few days. Wishing you all the best.

Okay, first off, thank you for being respectful, unlike half the brain-dead trolls who can’t read. I appreciate that you came with receipts, and you know what? That’s rare around these streets, so kudos for that. Seriously. You clearly care about the material, and that deserves respect. But now, let me roll up my sleeves because I do have some things to say.

Here’s Wilson’s translation again, from the same scene you mentioned:

“The suitors made a din throughout the shadowy halls, each man praying to lie beside her in her bed.”

Praying. Highlight it. Circle it in red. These losers were not planning anything; they were fantasizing. Not plotting, not scheming, not planning some coordinated assault. Praying. These morons are fantasizing about her like horny teenagers, not predators with an actual plan. Because that is what they are. Youth.

Even Fagles, who’s more dramatic in his language, sticks to the same tone:

“The suitors broke into uproar through the shadowed halls, all of them lifting prayers to lie beside her, share her bed…”

Lifting prayers. Again, they’re fantasizing, not attacking. These guys are scum, but they’re not warriors. They’re lazy, spineless leeches who drink Odysseus’ wine and stuff their faces with his food while posturing like kings.

The original line goes as follows:

"οἱ δ᾽ εὐχόμενοι πάντες ἐπ᾽ ἀλλήλοισι λέγοντο κοιμηθεῖν."

Translated literally, it says:

“And they, all praying, said among themselves to lie with her.”

Let’s focus on εὐχόμενοι (euchomenoi), the main verb here. It’s crucial because it doesn’t mean “plotting” or “planning.” It means praying, wishing, or hoping — a nonviolent, internal desire directed toward the gods. These guys weren’t conspiring to assault Penelope. They were sitting around fantasizing and asking divine forces to grant them her love (or, more likely, her submission).

Now, let’s look at κοιμηθεῖν (koimethein), which translates to “to sleep”. It is...not even sexual. It is literally a normal verb, “to sleep.” Homer had plenty of vocabulary to describe acts of physical aggression if that’s what he wanted to imply. Words like βιάζω (biazō, meaning “to force”) or ἁρπάζω (harpazō, meaning “to seize”) are all over the Iliad and Odyssey. If the suitors were intending rape, Homer would’ve used more explicit language. He didn’t. Let me contrast this with an actual moment in the Odyssey where sexual violence is implied, when he recalls his time on the island of Calypso:

“ἔνθα μὲν ἀμφ᾽ ἀνάγκῃ, τῇ δὲ θεὰ ἐρῶσά μιν ἔσχε.” (“There he stayed out of necessity, for the goddess, in her love, held him there.”)

Notice the two parts here. Odysseus stayed out of necessity, not because he wanted to. And why was he there? Because Calypso held him. That’s not love. That’s entrapment. Homer makes it clear that Odysseus had no agency in this situation — he was kept there against his will.

Homer uses the same word when Odysseus describes his time with Circe:

“ἀλλ᾽ ἔμεν᾽ ἐν σπέσσι λαῶν ἀνάγκῃ.” (“But I stayed in her halls by necessity.”)

The word ἀνάγκῃ is usually translated to “necessity,” but its meaning runs so much deeper. It implies force, constraint, distress, even violence. This isn’t a neutral word, and it sure as hell isn’t romantic.

When the gods finally intervene in the situation with Calypso, Hermes doesn’t mince words:

“ἀλλ᾽ ἤτοι δὴ νῦν οὔ τοι θέμις ἐστὶν ἄνακτα θνητὸν ἀνδρῶν ἐρύκειν.” (“It is not lawful for you to keep a mortal man here.”)

The gods themselves have to tell Calypso to let him go because she won’t do it willingly. That’s not the behavior of a tragic lover — it’s the behavior of someone who refuses to relinquish control.

Even when she finally agrees to release Odysseus, she doesn’t make it easy for him. She says:

“καὶ τὸν ἔασα πονεύμενον οἴκαδε νοστῆσαι.” (“I will allow him, suffering, to return home.”)

Notice that word — πονεύμενον (poneumenon), meaning “suffering” or “toiling.” She’s not helping him. She’s forcing him to work for his freedom, as if she’s making him earn the right to escape. And what does she give him to leave? Not a ship, not safe passage — she hands him an axe and tells him to build his own raft. But anyway, back to the topic at hand. They suitors, yes, they are lusting after Penelope, but there’s no plan of attack here. They’re scum, but they’re cowardly scum. They want Penelope to hand herself over to them, not because they’re forcing her physically, but because they think they can break her spirit. The whole point of the suitors is that they’re lecherous freeloaders who don’t actually have the guts to do anything.

And let’s talk about context. Penelope is a queen. She’s surrounded by her maids, she has her son in the house, and she’s got the weight of Odysseus’ legacy protecting her. The suitors know they can’t just drag her off to a bedroom without consequences. They’re playing a long game of manipulation and coercion, trying to wear her down until she chooses one of them. That’s why they’re so frustrated by her weaving trick — because she’s outsmarting them at their own game.

If Homer had wanted to imply a real physical threat, he would’ve. This is the same guy who wrote gory, brutal battle scenes and didn’t shy away from dark topics. He wasn’t subtle. If the suitors were planning to physically assault Penelope, we would know. Instead, what we get is a bunch of entitled men sitting around, praying to get lucky.

Now, does this mean the suitors aren’t a threat? Of course not. Their presence is invasive, degrading, and psychologically abusive. Penelope has to endure their constant disrespect and their lewd comments, and that’s horrifying in its own way. But we have to call it what it is: harassment and coercion, not rape.

And I know some people will argue that it’s “just a retelling” and that Jorge has the right to make changes. Sure, he does. But if you’re going to adapt one of the most iconic texts in Western literature, you have a responsibility to understand what you’re working with. You can’t just slap modern trauma narratives onto these characters without considering the implications.

So yeah, I disagree with you. The suitors weren’t planning to rape Penelope. That’s not what Homer wrote, and it’s not what the story is about. The fact that so many people jump to that conclusion says more about our culture than it does about the text.

That said, I do appreciate your thoughtfulness and your willingness to engage in this discussion. It’s rare to see someone actually care about the nuances of the Odyssey, even if we don’t agree. Thanks for that.

[carylmeanslove]

Ha ha ha and now what? Even Boss confirmed officialy that Antonia is Luke's lady whisteldown on his sm platforms..... I feel they both will have collab with them soon ha ha another hard launch but globally! Just see the reality and Come back to this planet. This is over. L and A are happy Hot and i love write about them

LOL Obvious children with no writing skills have been sending me Asks. All these anons, reek of desperation, same as Toilet twerker's attempts to be famous.

Boss confirmed that Antonia is Luke's Lady Whistledown on social media you say? Ha! I highly doubt that. Even if it were true, it's obvious it would be due to the distraction/ruse is still going on. In time, time will reveal the truth and mark my words it will, and I can't wait for that day, because all you pitiful anons will disappear out of embarrassment and so will the attention-seeking, fame wanting, basically gold digger type, horrible dancer.

That horrible woman is NOTHING like Lady Whistledown. Lady Whistledown, who is a self-made woman. She got all the success and notoriety by her own hard work. She didn't have to ride on another's coat tails. That is all the toilet twerker does.

Underneath the actual Lady Whistledown there is Penelope. That immature horrible person is NOTHING like Penelope either. Penelope is a caring person, and she loves the people she loves with her whole heart and would do anything to protect them. Colin wants to protect Penelope too and look out for her due to how much he loves her and due to how she is such a loving, caring and wonderful person and that continues even after the LW reveal.

Antonia is NOTHING like the caring and loving person that is Penelope. If she was, she wouldn't have been trying to steal attention from Nicola after every post all year. Luke would have wanted to protect Antonia like Colin wanted to protect Penelope/LW, but Luke didn't do that. He did, however, protect Nicola all due to people thinking he was shading her over cake fondant, and he did it in the speed of light too. Also, all Antonia does is cause people to hate on Luke more with every bad behavior. Is that protecting him? Nope.

The truth is that the person Luke considers like Penelope/LW is the love of his life, Nicola. He confirmed it on the WT. That is hard confirmed too. Like, there is actual video of him saying it. Go watch the interviews of the Brazil stop to be exact, Luke described Nicola as being like both Penelope and LW and why and it was all true too. Antonia has none of those qualities. He also confirmed Nicola is Penelope/LW it in a printed interview too. Saying that Nicola is that character.

Antonia can also only wish to be SERIOUSLY considered even remotely like Aphrodite or even Tinkerbell. Ha! Those characters, like Penelope/LW are beloved and will be remembered throughout history. I can say confidently that miss thang won't. She won't last in the entertainment industry because you have to have likability and NO ONE likes her due to her behavior and personality, her aura even. Even you guys will get over her after the truth is revealed.

My advice for Antonia is she needs to go get a degree in a non-entertainment industry job, because the one she chose has a shelf life. She doesn't have the ability or likability to sustain a career in the entertainment industry. She also needs to develop a hard work ethic and reach where is it she wants to be with the sweat of her own brow. It's the only way to truly be proud of any accomplishment one might receive in life.

So anyway, to wrap up. you are highly delusional, Anon.

[d-targaryenshoe]

Rather Or Rather Not - Luke Thompson

Word count: 868

Summary: Would you rather answer questions by yourself or to be joined by your lover and a friend?

The grand ballroom on the Bridgerton set was abuzz with excitement as a game hosted by Netflix began. 

You, Nicola Coughlan, and Luke Thompson, three of the most talented and beloved actors in the Bridgerton series, gathered around a lavish table adorned with candelabras and sparkling chandeliers. 

The theme of the game was Would you rather, inspired by your beloved show, Bridgerton. 

The air was thick with anticipation as you waited for the first question to be revealed.

"It's time to play!" cheered Nicola Coughlan, who portrayed Penelope Featherington, as she flitted about the room, handing out cards to each of the players.

 "Remember, you must answer the question truthfully, and may the best actor win!" With a dramatic flourish, she flipped over the first card, revealing the first question: "Would you rather... binge-watch the entire series in one sitting, or have to wait an entire year for the next season to premiere?"

You all glanced at each other, knowing full well that this was a question you had been contemplating for months.

 You, who portrayed the vivacious y/c/n, grinned widely and said, "Oh, I could never wait a whole year! I'd much rather binge it all in one go." 

Nicola Coughlan, who brought the iconic Penelope Featherington to life, nodded in agreement.

 "I completely understand," she said with a sigh. "It's torture not knowing what happens next."

Luke Thompson, your boyfriend and the man who played the dashing and mysterious Lord Benedict Bridgerton, chuckled and said, "Well, it seems you two have already made up your minds. In that case, I'll have to go with the opposite choice. I'd much rather take my time and savor each episode as they air." 

You and Nicola laughed, impressed by his restraint.

The next question was revealed: by you.

 "Would you rather... have your character end up with your on-screen love interest, or have them find true love with someone else?" you bit your lip, considering the possibilities. 

"Oh, that's a tough one... I think I'd want my character to end up with their true love. Even if it means someone else gets the happy ending, you know?" 

Nicola Coughlan nodded in agreement.

 "Agreed," she said. "As much as I love my character with Colin, I think it would be more satisfying to see her find happiness with someone who truly deserves it if the story would be different."

The tension in the room was palpable as the final question was revealed by your boyfriend. 

"Would you rather... have your character's life play out exactly as it does in the books, or have the opportunity to rewrite their fate and give them a different ending?" Luke furrowed his brow, deep in thought.

 "That's a hard one... I think I'd like to see my character have the chance to write their own ending. Even if it means straying from the source material, it's important for them to have agency and make their own choices."

Nicola Coughlan glanced over at you, who was still lost in thought. "What about you, y/n? What would you choose?" 

You looked up, a determined expression on your face. "You know, I think I'd rather rewrite their fate. Because even if their life isn't perfect, they can still find happiness in the end. And who's to say what's meant to be, anyway?" 

The other actors nodded in agreement, feeling the weight of the question settle over them.

The final question hung in the air, unanswered, but for now, it could wait. There would be plenty of time for more questions, more laughter, and more memories to be made.

 Because in the end, that was what being a part of the Bridgerton family was truly about: finding joy in the journey, no matter where it led.

The question was revealed: "Would you rather... spend the rest of your life in the world of Bridgerton, or step outside of it and explore new roles and experiences?" 

Nicola's eyes widened, and she glanced around the table at her fellow actors. 

"That's quite the quandary," she mused. "But I think I would have to say that I would rather stay in Bridgerton. Not only because I love it here, but because I believe that we are one family and that there is so much out there waiting to be told."

You nodded in agreement. "I feel the same way, definitely. This role has given me so much, and I think there are so much possibilities in this project. I can't wait to see what it still holds." 

Luke, ever the optimist, added, "I'd have to say the same. And I know that whatever comes next, we'll always have Bridgerton and each other." 

You all raised your glasses in a toast, the clinking of crystal against porcelain filling the empty ballroom with a joyous noise.

And so the game went on, the questions flying fast and furious, as you all shared your thoughts, your dreams, and your fears. 

You discussed your favorite moments from the series, your hopes for the future, and the lessons you learned along the way.

You laughed and you cried, you debated and you agreed, and through it all, you all felt a bond that went deeper than any script could ever convey.

[historygirlie]

HAPPY VALENTINES DAY MY BELOVED LOVEBIRDS!! (And those like me who are single mfs). HERE HAVE SOME BEAUTIFUL GREEK MYTHOLOGY COUPLES THAT I LOVEEEEEEE. (Also there is a Hamilton and Eliza drawing upcoming I haven’t forgotten my lovely Hamilton fans. Maybe a lil TSOA shitpost who knows 🤭🤭)

Anyways the couples by pictures are:

(Young) Achilles and Patroclus

Apollo and Hyancithus

Penelope and Odysseus

[jenjoiii]

I see today is a good day to drop more my another character design from Epic The Musical (I already did but on YouTube post)

Penelope!!!!!!!!! 💙💙💙

My beloved. You can see her from The Horse And The Infant animatic. Below is my insight, the same when I did with Diomedes post.

Here's the thought! For Penelope, I give her midnight blue color and play around with silver and gold since she is presented as high status, smart, calm and strong mind woman, and she can be mysterious too with her tricks. Her overall shape is square like a pillar, as she was the ruler of the Ithaca house when Odysseus was at war.

Why Penelope has such a long hair after 20 years? No one ask but I'll just yap anyways-

From my research and knowledge, at that time when someone you love died, you tend to cut a lock of your hair and buried it with the dead. It happened in some literature and plays like The Iliad or Electra play. She start keeping the hair long about 3-5 years before Odysseus come back, when the suitor start to put on the pressure. So this shows Penelope’s stand in political and mental that Her husband is alive and the funeral will not be held. She also have her hair well braided because she’s still married

If you look closely, the gem on her ring is olive’s color. Probably like golden pearl or mali garnet or peridot gemstone. It links with the wedding bed :))